gft20110618-01-02

Date: 07-15-2011	File name:  gft20110618-01-02
Keywords:	1930s, Cornia Family, Tarbet Family, Salt Lake City, Logan, Chesterfield, baptism, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, childhood
People:	Scott Tarbet (ST), Glen Tarbet (GT), LeeAnn (LA).  Ann Tarbet (AT), Julie Tarbet (JT)
	[begin gft.20110618-1.WMA 87:08]
ST	15:15 on Folder A. Um, so tell me about the interview that Julia and Jami did.  What all did you guys go over.
GT	Oh my.  It just went hither and yon, actually.  I can’t remember exactly what we covered.  It must have been about three hours’ worth of recording.  We talked about all sorts of things.
ST	Well, have you thought about anything that you missed talking about in those interviews, that you would have liked to have added later?
GT	I haven’t really thought much about it, no.  [laughter]  No, I haven’t.  It was kind of hit-and-miss kind of thing.
ST	Was it?
GT	Yeah.  They just —  it was random, so . . .  I don’t know how I would describe it.  They just — whenever we got the chance to start talking. [chuckles]
ST	Just got talking and kept talking, huh?
GT	Yeah.
ST	Well, that’s one way to go about it.
GT	Well, I know.  It’s very disorganized.
ST	Well,  um . . .  They’ve provided me the recording of that.  I just haven’t had time to sit down and listen to it, and compare it with the list that I’ve got of kind of standard interview questions.  But, um. . .  Maybe what I could do is get you to give me . . . To start my outline, give me a couple of lists:  1.  Of everywhere you ever lived sequentially, right from when you were born; and then we’ll get a list of everywhere you’ve ever worked, and that will help us create a timeline — with years, if you know.
GT	I know we talked about that —about where I was born, and that event rather extensively.
ST	And that was?
GT	I was born in Salt Lake City, in the home of Uncle Virgil and Aunt Edna, my mother’s brother and his wife —her oldest brother, Uncle Virgil.
ST	The family lore is —well, I think that Grandma actually told me that you were born on the kitchen table?
GT	That’s right.
ST	They used that for a delivery room.
GT	Yes.  I was born in the kitchen on the kitchen table.  It was an instrument delivery . . .
ST	Wow.  Had to get out the calf puller to get you out, huh?
GT	[chuckles]  I guess you could call it that.  I know Mom said that my head was all out of shape because of the clamp on my head that they pulled me out with, and the doctor told her not to worry about it, that it would get normal very quickly.  I don’t know if it did or not.  [laughter]
ST	Well, if it didn’t, I sure got it.  [laughter] So, how long did you live there?  Grandma was living there, at Uncle Virgil’s.
GT	She was living with them for I don’t know how long.  It must have been months.  I know she told me that she had some episodes with her nephews.  She told me how she chased I think it was Donald, the oldest boy, down the street one time.  I can’t remember why, but he was surprised that she could run fast enough to catch him.  [laughter]
ST	He thought he was going to leave her in the dust.
GT	I guess something like that.  And I know Calvin and I — when I was a little kid —he told me about things that happened when she was living there with them and I was born.  Calvin is the youngest son.  He’s the only one of the four that are still alive.  As far as I know, he’s still alive.  I haven’t heard anything from him for a couple of years.
ST	How much older than you is he?
GT	As I recall, he was like eight when I was five, or something like that — 3-4 years older than me.
ST	Any idea where he is now?
GT	Well, if he’s still in the same place he was last time I saw him, it’s Logan.  He had a little apartment in I guess you would call it almost downtown Logan, Utah.  He was my — very much my childhood hero.  I spent a lot of time with him.  We played around in Logan and quite often during the summer they’d — Uncle Virgil and Aunt Edna would take me to their place for a week or two, and I’d spend that time doing things with Calvin.  We would spend quite a bit of time up on the Utah State campus — it was Utah State Agricultural College then.  USAC.  And, we liked to play in the chemistry building.  Of course, it was summertime and there were just summer students in there, but we would mess around in the laboratories when the kids were in there studying.  I guess mostly graduate students, when I think about it.  I remember them chasing the two of us — Calvin and me — around the building one time.  They had pressure flasks that they used for water guns [laughter].
ST	Sounds like they were pretty good natured about the trespassers.
GT	Oh, yeah.  And one time, I got — I was playing in one of the laboratories and I got in some acid, somehow.
ST	Uh-oh
GT	On my arm and elbow, and they washed me off quick, but it was a little scary.
ST	Oh, man.  Can you imagine these days?
GT	I think it must have been sulfuric acid because it was kind of sticky.
ST	Oh.  For heck sakes. So, do you actually remember living in Uncle Virgil’s home?  Was Grandma still there when you were old enough to remember.
GT	Not the one down by Liberty Park.  I don’t remember actually living there.  I remember visiting there after I was oh, maybe about five years old, I think, was my first memory of visiting there after they moved out and moved to Logan.  I remember living with them in their first house in Logan.  My mother and I were still — I guess, I don’t know how old I was then, or why my mother was with them then, but I remember very vaguely playing around —they lived down on like — I think it was like about Second West in Logan.  I don’t really know exactly what the address was, but I know it was on the left side. But, then they moved.  The next place I remember living with them in Logan was about — I think about Second East and between Third and Fourth North, and I remember their house then wasn’t far from the canal.  It always seems like it wasn’t far from that canal.  [laughs]  But then, later on, when I was —oh, must have been seven or eight — they moved up on the hill, just across the street from the temple, on I guess it’s Third East, just straight across the street from the Logan Temple, and right next door to the temple president’s  home.
ST	That’s where they were living when I was a little kid.  I remember.
GT	No, that was — When  you were a little kid, it was on the west side of the temple.  It was right straight across the street from the temple.
ST	Oh.  With the canal between the back of the house and the backyard?
GT	Right.   Well, the canal was right in the backyard.  They actually had a little bridge across the canal to the extension of their yard, on the other side of the canal, from their house, when they lived there.  That was a lot of fun for grandkids.
ST	Oh, yeah.  He would cut a little piece of 2'x4' for us, when we were there, and tie a piece of string on it, and it was a boat.
GT	He made you a boat, huh?
ST	Yeah.  So, where were you living at that time? —  When they were in the various places in Logan?
GT	Well, I guess at least part of that time we must have been living in the Kennion Hotel on Main Street in Salt Lake City.  It’s at Main Street and Second South.  I remember very clearly living in the Kennion Hotel.  I must have been —  well, I know I had to have been four years old at least part of that time.  I don’t know exactly how long, but I remember it was a one-room apartment in the hotel, with Grandma and Grandpa, and my mother and me, and I don’t know who else was there.  At one time, Aunt Corral (Coral) was there, and that’s for sure because there was a serious even there when they were cooking a chicken on a hot plate on the table, and I pulled the pot of chicken off the hot plate, and Aunt Corral managed to divert it onto her leg—
ST	Oh my gosh.
GT	—when the pot tipped over.  We have a photograph of —I can’t quite remember the photograph, but it’s either she or Grandpa is holding me, and she has a big bandage on her leg, and that was from her getting burned by that spilled hot plate.
ST	This is Grandma and Grandpa Cornia, right?
GT	Enoch and Grandma Cornia were there.
ST	Carrie Larsen Cornia
GT	And Mother and I were living with them, and the photograph was taken in front of Uncle Virgil’s house up on — up by Liberty Park.  Actually, the house is still there, southeast of Liberty Park a couple of blocks —a couple of short blocks.  It’s about Thirteenth South —  no, it must be about Fourteenth South, I guess, where that house is.  But I can’t remember the name of the street.  But uh, that’s where I was born.
ST	So, where did you move to from the Kennion Hotel?
GT	When — I remember very clearly the day we moved from the Kennion Hotel down to Moffat — not Moffat — Alamo Place, which was on the corner of North Temple and what was then Second West but is now Third West.  The reason I remember that so well is because I remember riding down the seat in the rumble seat of the car that they were moving in, among some of the stuff they had hauling in the rumble seat.  I was back there with it.
ST	Was it Grandpa Cornia’s car?
GT	I don’t know whose care it was for sure, but I imagine it was.
ST	And, how old were you?
GT	I was four years old then.  And it was shortly after we moved there that I started school at Washington Elementary and I was four years old when I started school.
ST	Oh geeze.
GT	I, uh, of course — my birthday is September 30th, and I think school started the first week of September, if I remember right, and I was four years old for a little while.
ST	Wow.
GT	And, I was —it was I think kind of a highhanded thing that they got me started in school when I was only four.  I know my mother liked to brag that the teachers were really surprised that I was only four.  And, all the way through school I was always the youngest person in the class.
ST	Oh, yeah.  I know that feeling.
GT	Kinda sorta the same thing happened to you, didn’t it.
ST	Yep.  Kinda sorta.  Yep.  We moved from —I think it was from Brigham City to Salt Lake when I was in kindergarten, right after kindergarten had started, and Mom stuck me in the first grade.
GT	Yeah, I guess that’s right.  From Brigham City to Salt Lake.
ST	So, how long did you live in Alamo Court [Place]
GT	It must have been a couple of years that we were living there with Grandma and Grandpa Cornia in Alamo Court — Alamo Place it was.  They called it Alamo Place.
ST	Alamo Place.  —  There’s a big old parking lot there now, I guess.
GT	Uh, I think it is nothing but parking lot on that block now, if I remember right.
ST	Yeah, between the Family History Center and KSL.
GT	Yeah. But, Alamo Place had I think like five duplex homes, two apartments each.
LA	Do you want this left open?
GT	What?
LA	‘Scuse me.  I apologize.  Do you want this — I’m just going to be a minute.  I can’t hear on this phone down — in here.  Do you want me to leave the door open and get some fresh air, or shut it?
GT	Uh, let’s have it shut.  It shines in my eyes.  That was LeeAnn.  She’s not feeling well today.  She’s having trouble with her neck.
ST	That’s what she was telling me on the home.  They’ve given her some Valium and it’s knocking her for a loop, she said.
GT	Anyway, in the rear part of Alamo Place, were these duplexes, and in the front part were three two-story apartment houses, and I think they had like two apartments in each apartment house, is all.  But, it’s interesting me mainly because reading President Monson’s biography, he tells about his uncle built houses where he lived down on Second West, and the way he describes those houses sounds very much like Alamo Place.
ST	Huh.  How about that?
GT	Only, that was down between like Fifth and Seventh South on Second West.  It was called Second West then, but it’s Third West now.  But, we lived in one of those duplexes.  It was actually a three-room apartment with a living room, kitchen, and bedroom, and of course a bathroom.  That didn’t count as one of the rooms.  But, those three rooms would just about fit in this living room we’re in right now.
ST	This living room is what?  20’x20’, approximately?  Something like that.
GT	Something like that.
ST	And that was the four of you?  Was Aunt Pat still with you then? — Aunt Corral?
GT	No.  Aunt Corral and Uncle Bob had moved to California some time before that.  I don’t know how long.  But, they lived in Oakland California, and I remember clearly while we were still living in Alamo Place, that their first child was born.  They called him Robin then.  He just goes by Robert now.  He doesn’t go by Robin anymore.  He’s now the patriarch of the Jarvis family.
ST	So, how much younger is Robin than you?
GT	Well, I guess he must be about four or five years younger than me.  As I remember, I was five years old when we got the news that Aunt Corral had had their first baby.
ST	So, their three are —in order are, Robin, Austin and then Patty?  Or is it Robert —
GT	Robin, then Patty, and then Austin.
ST	And then Austin.  Austin is younger than Patty.  Gotcha.
GT	I think that’s right.  Maybe it’s Patty and then Austin.  That’s what I said, isn’t it?
ST	Yeah.
GT	Maybe it’s Austin and then Patty.
ST	I’ll have to look it up.  Anyway — So, how long did you live in Alamo Place.
GT	Well, uh, I was five years old when my mother got married to Glen E. Tarbet, and I suspect that one of the reasons she married him was his name was Glen, and my name was already Glen.  [chuckles]  It was kind of convenient.
ST	Yeah.
GT	But, I remember when I was five years old that she was babysitting and he came to visit her while she was babysitting.  Glen E. came to visit her, and that’s when I was introduced to him.  They got married shortly after that.  I was five years old.  And, he lived there in Alamo Place, so that he and Mom and I and Grandma and Grandpa for I don’t know how long  — oh, maybe about a year, I think, or maybe less.
ST	In that little bitty apartment.
GT	In that little apartment.  And, incidentally, Uncle Cecile and Aunt Hazel and their three girls lived just kitty corner across the street from there, in an apartment house for part of that time.  Their three girls being:  Peggy, Sally, and Patty.  Patty was born while they were there.  I remember that Sally got hit by a car playing in the service station right next door to where they lived.
ST	Oh man.
GT	And she had her picture in the paper because she got hit by a car.
ST	She got hit by a car.  Are all three of them still alive?
GT	As far as I know.  They were at the thing they had for Aunt Corral’s memorial, instead of her funeral.  You were there.
ST	Yeah.
GT	And, they were always, usually there for Aunt Corral’s birthdays.  The last birthday party they had for Aunt Corral, we all — there was also Donald Cornia’s daughter Carolyn was there.  That was the first time we’d seen her for many, many years.
ST	I remember that.  As a matter of fact, I’ve still got the pictures from that, that I keep intending to have you give me the names on those three, so that I know.  Because, I don’t know them, so . . .   I’ll have to email that to you again and get those names on there.
GT	I need to do that, huh? But, we were still living — the three of us — my mother and Dad Tarbet —he became my dad immediately and I became Glen Frank Tarbet immediately and have been ever since.  But, we must have lived there in Alamo Place with them for several months before we moved out and moved in with the Tarbet Family, and that was on Second West and Sixth South, just — as I recall, the address must have been about 620 South Second West.
ST	Is that the old Second West or the —
GT	It was Second West then.  It was called Second West then, which is now Third West. But, none of those houses are there anymore.  I’m sure that it’s one of the houses that President Monson’s uncle built in that neighborhood.  And President Monson himself must have lived just around the corner from where we lived at that time.  He’s I think six years older than I — wait a minute — no.  He’s just three years older than me.  He was born in 1934 and I was born in 1931.
ST	So, he’s younger.
GT	No.  He was born in 1928.  ‘Scuse me.
ST	Oh.  There we go.  Okay.
GT	I’ve got my arithmetic mixed up.  He was born in 1928, so he’s three years older than I.  He had to have been living right around there when we were living there.  At one time, in that house, which was a very similar house/room arrangement to the duplex in Alamo Place, but it did have a big back porch and a back yard.  One time, there were ten of us living in that house.
ST	In the one-bedroom apartment?  There were ten of you?
GT	It was a one-bedroom apartment.
ST	Holy cow.
GT	Of course, we lived the living room and the kitchen —I think there were beds —and then the back porch.  There was Dad Tarbet’s two sisters — no, four sisters were living there, and two of them had children when we were living in that house.  And, it was wintertime and I remember my mother and I were sleeping in the living room and the front porch roof got so much snow on it, the roof caved in on the front porch.  I remember hearing sounds coming from that —the porch roof breaking —
ST	Oh my word.
GT	And waking me up.
ST	That would have been the winter of ’39?
GT	It had to have been about 1936, I think.
ST	1936.
GT	Or, maybe even ’37.  It could have been the winter of 1935 too. . . .  No, it had to have been —I think I was in the first grade at the Grant Elementary, if I remember right, which was just a short distance from there.
ST	So, that would probably make it ’35-’36.
GT	Yeah.
ST	So, how long did you live with the Tarbets?
GT	That’s really hard for me to remember how long we lived there.  I have very dim memories of that, but I remember it being springtime and my mother planting sweet peas in the front yard.  I thought that was really something, that we could grow sweet peas.
ST	Just for context, this is right smack in the middle of the Depression, I guess.
GT	Yeah.  It was at the worst part of the Depression, I think.  It started in 1929 —
ST	Were you aware of it?  What kind of impact did that have on you as a little kid?
GT	No.  I wasn’t aware of it at all.
ST	So, where did you move to from when you lived with the Tarbets.
GT	We were in that place for oh, I don’t know how long, but it seems like the first place we moved to, if I remember right —it could have been the second place — We did quite a bit of moving.  I know that we moved to a place called Whitaker Court, which was next door to Sweets Candy Company on First South and First West.  I think it was called First West.  It’s 200 West —Second West now.  It was right just up the street from the old Fourteenth Ward chapel.  And, by the way, my first experience with going to church was when Grandpa took me to that Fourteenth Ward.  I think I was five years old then, when he took me there.
ST	This would be Grandpa Cornia?
GT	I remember very clearly singing “The Spirit of God Like a Fire is Burning” [laughter] when I was five years old.
ST	Oh, boy.
GT	But, that was —I also remember going to Sunday School  — Junior Sunday School then, and not having a teacher in my Sunday School Class.
LA	It’s dark in here after being in the sun.
GT	And the kids were just really rowdy.  I didn’t like that at all.  The kids would jump around on the chairs and made all kinds of racket.  They also put us down on the stage down in the basement.  They had a recreation hall, I guess they called it then, down in the basement, with a stage, and I remember sticking my finger in the footlight socket and getting shocked.  [laughter]  There was no globe in the socket.
ST	Of course.
GT	I wanted to find out what was in there, and I found out.  [laughter]
ST	And you found out.
GT	That was my first experience with electricity.
ST	Were all the places you were living electrified at that time?
GT	Oh, yeah.  They had electricity.  It was quite primitive electricity.  They’d have to run an extension cord from the ceiling light fixture —they’d just have a light dangling from the ceiling, with a duplex plug in it — one with a plug on one side of it and a light in the other, and a pull cord to turn it on and off.
ST	Almost unimaginable these days.
GT	It had —the place in Alamo — I’m talking about Alamo Place again —but it was — I remember very distinctly there having a dirt cellar underneath the apartment, and a trap door going into it from the kitchen.  You had to move the kitchen table to open the trap door to go down into the basement —down into the cellar.
ST	For root storage like carrots and potatoes and what not?
GT	Carrots and potatoes and Grandma had her fruit down there, and her root beer that she made.  She kept down there.  I imagine she had her homemade wine down there too.  When she was coming up in the Church, wine of your own make was a very common thing —
ST	Right, right.
GT	And that’s an interesting episode in my life too, because she had a bottle of her homemade wine in the bedroom window, right next to where my bed was on the cedar chest.  And, I saw her take a little nip of that wine once in a while, and so I decided to do it too.  My step-father got the blame for the diminishment of the wine.  [laughter]  Until they caught me doing it.  But, I don’t remember any effects from it at all, so I could have gotten drunk.  I don’t know.  But, as far as I know, I’ve never been drunk in my life.
ST	It probably was not terribly strong.
GT	Unless I was accidentally inebriated unconsciously then.  But, I do remember they used to treat sore throats and things with hot toddy, and kept a half pint of whiskey in the ice box.
LA	I was going to say, that’s where you hide your whiskey.  [laughter]  I’m just teasing.
GT	I do remember getting a hot toddy as a little kid when I had a sore throat.  That’s the only experience I have with whiskey.
LA	That I would say would qualify under medical need.
ST	Yep.  Yep.
GT	I would.
ST	Now, we just call is Nyquil.
LA	You know what Laurie did?  I’m interrupting.  I’ll shut up in just a sec, but, I laughed my head off.  Laurie got [0:39:01.5], and I thought, “What is we had a disaster?  Your leg is severed.  You can’t get out.  And, you know, you think about the St. Bernard who brings the whiskey?  She went and got and locked it under —like a combination —a big gallon of some type of alcohol —they don’t drink alcohol.  But, you know, if you had to and you were sicker than a dog in a disaster, you could have a couple of teaspoons of it.  That’s all you had.  That’s truly medicinal.  I don’t think that would be against Heavenly Father.
ST	Right, right.
GT	No.  That’s right.
LA	But, I was laughing and go, “Oh sure, Laurie.  Uh-huh.”  So she came over — she got it probably about six months ago —  she goes, “Come over.  It’s still under lock and key.”  [laughter]
ST	The seals still on the neck.
LA	Yeah.  She’s got a combination lock, plus another box with a lock.  [laughter]
GT	Anyway, at Whitaker Court, I was still going to Grant Elementary.  I can remember that.  But, I have very dim memories of Grant Elementary.  I remember being kind of unhappy there.  And, I remember walking home from Grant Elementary and not making it all the way home before I had to go to the toilet.  [chuckles]
ST	So, where was Grant Elementary?
GT	Well, let’s see.  As I recall, it was between Sixth and Seventh South — no, between Seventh and Eighth South, on First West, if I remember right.  But it’s long gone.  I don’t know when they tore it down.  But, that’s where President Monson went to elementary school, and he tells about that in “To The Rescue”.  But, he must have been just leaving there when I was starting.
ST	So, where did you move from there.
GT	From Whitaker Court, there was a court up on Third South, between Fourth and Fifth East that we lived in a house there for a little while.  I can’t even remember the name of that place.  But then, we moved to Moffat Court —and it was Moffat Court.  Moffat Court is still there, but I think there is only one house on it and some parking spaces.  It’s on — Moffat Court is on — it takes off of Fourth South, about halfway between Second and Third East, about 200, 250 East Third [Fourth] South is where Moffat Court is, and our house was the last house in the court.  So, it was — had to be about 350 Moffat Court.  It was quite similar to the Alamo Place house, except it was a house with one bedroom and a kitchen and a living room, and a dining room.  So, it was a four-room house with a bathroom.
ST	And who all was living there at the time?
GT	Uh, all of the people were there that had been over on Second West, were there in Moffat Court, including Grandpa and Grandma Tarbet, Mom and I and Dad Tarbet, and Eunice Tarbet —only, she was Eunice Reilly then.  She was married.  Her sister Phyllis Bickford — Phyllis Tarbet Bickford —and Eunice had Patsy and Jeannie, and I think Donny was born while we lived in Moffat Court.  That was all of the Reilly kids.  And then, Phyllis Bickford had Freddie and Dickie.  Dickie was born while we lived in Moffat.  But, the men folk were often gone.  There were very seldom all of the men folk there, especially Glen E. Tarbet.  He and the others would go prospecting for gold in various places.
ST	Were they ever successful?
GT	I guess they got a little gold.  [chuckles]  And, while we lived in Whitaker Court, they were prospecting for gold in the Salt Lake City sewer.
ST	In the sewer?  For jewelry or . . .
GT	Well, that’s one of the things they were most thrilled about, whenever they found something.  They found diamond rings and I think the thing they got most of was dental gold which people had lost down the drain.
ST	No kidding.
GT	No kidding.  And, they’d gather debris out of drain and put it in a sluice box, and bring the sluice box home, and they’d all gather around that sluice box and try and find little pieces of gold.  In the box.  [chuckles]
ST	Oh my gosh.   Boy.  That just can’t be pleasant.
GT	Well, I think probably that most of the stuff that got in the sluice boxes was from the gutter drains.
ST	Ah.
GT	Because, I don’t think it was really very — as I recall —I don’t remember it being stinky.
ST	It was storm drainage.
GT	Storm drainage.  Yeah.  Gotcha. But, I guess to get dental jewelry, it had to be out of the dental offices that were — there were several of them all over Main Street.  They were down under Main Street a lot in Salt Lake City.  In fact, for years Mom had a newspaper article framed on the wall with a picture of Glen E. Tarbet and his partner, and the caption under the picture was, “There’s gold in them thar drains!”  [laughter]  I imagine that picture is still around someplace.  I don’t know where it is, but Martha might have it.  Martha has lots of stuff of Mom’s, up in Paradise.   Paradise, Utah, by Logan.
ST	Right.  I have some of her papers, but —and genealogy and what not from when she passed away, but not that kind of thing —not that kind of mementos.  We ought to involve Martha in this process.  I don’t recall having her name come up.  . . . Anyway —  From Moffat Court, where did you go?
GT	Well, let’s see.  Moffat Court — the next place we  moved to was an apartment house on Third East—it was kind of around the block—around the corner from Moffat Place.  Actually, there was a shortcut you could take to it by climbing over the fence.  I did that a few times.  But, it was on about oh, about 226 South Third East, if I remember right.  It was where the apartment house was that Mom and I moved to, and once and a while Dad Tarbet was there.  It was a one-room apartment with a bathroom midway between the ground floor and the top floor.
ST	Oh geeze.
GT	—shared between, I think it must have been three apartments that shared that bathroom.
ST	My word.
GT	[chuckles]  We had to climb one flight of stairs to get to it.
ST	—to get to the bathroom.
GT	The people on the top floor had to come down a flight of stairs.
ST	Needless to say, in the middle of the night, people didn’t make that trip much, huh?
GT	[chuckles]  Right.  In fact, I guess we had a chamber pot that we used instead of the bathroom quite a bit.  A “Thunder Mark” I think it was called.
ST	Yep. Yep.
GT	And, there were actually two sides to the apartment house, and each side had an upstairs with the bathroom halfway in between.  I had a really good friend in the apartment across—kitty corner from our apartment—our one-room apartment.  They had like a three-room apartment, I think, that my friend lived in.  His name was Ronald Franz.  He and his mother were active in the Church.  His father wasn’t.  His father was an alcoholic.  But, it was Ronald that got me to be baptized in the Church when I turned eight.  Both of us turned eight at the same time, and we both got baptized in the Salt Lake Tabernacle together.  We both went to the same ward, the old Eighth Ward down on—let’s see—what was it?  Fifth South and Fourth East—no, Third East.  Fifth South and Third East was where the old Eighth Ward was.  I never did go to Sacrament Meeting there because I would have had to have gone by myself.  My mother didn’t go.  I did go to Sunday School, and Primary once in a while, and I remember the Sunday School very well.  Junior Sunday School was held on the lower floor of the chapel, and the classes were divided up by curtains, instead of walls.  The sacrament was served to the Junior Sunday School students.  Of course, that has been done away with for many years now.
ST	That was done away when I was a kid.  [editor:  I remember it, so Scott had to be at least twelve).
GT	Was it?
ST	Hmmm-mmm.
GT	Yeah.  I think remember that, now that you mention it.  And, the Sacrament then was served in —the water was served in little aluminum cups—just one-swallow cups.
ST	So they had to be—
GT	They were the same size as the paper cups we have now.
ST	Right.
GT	But, I don’t imagine they were terribly sanitary.
ST	I don’t imagine so.  Leaving it to a bunch of fourteen-year-old boys to clean up after? {chuckles]
GT	In fact, I think there was somebody with a pitcher of water—if they ran out of cups, they’d refill them.  [chuckles] The pitcher would get blessed at the same time as the other.  . . . I don’t know how sanitary it was.
ST	They probably did have some contagions go through that nobody actually blamed on the Sacrament, but that probably got transmitted that way.
GT	Yep.  I remember that very clearly.  And, I remember personally when I first took the Sacrament, I thought that was such a little tiny piece of bread I had to be careful not to eat it all of once  [laughter] and I’d nibble on it for as long as I could.  [chuckles]
ST	That’s great.
GT	So, when I was eight years old, Ronald and I and a couple of other kids—I don’t know who—I think my mother—we all walked from our apartment on Third East over to the Tabernacle to get baptized.  Of course, that’s about six blocks—six of those big long Salt Lake City Blocks—almost a mile.
ST	Three-quarters of a mile.  Yeah.
GT	I remember very clearly that walk.
ST	I bet.
GT	I remember that better than the baptism.  [laughter]  I’m afraid the baptism didn’t mean a whole lot to me then.  But, I was glad to have it done anyway.  It was nice of the Franzes to make sure it happened.
ST	Are you still in touch with him?
GT	Haven’t been for many years.  He was in the —he lived in the same stake that the Kenwood Second Ward was in when we were up there, and I’d seem him occasionally at Stake Conference—
ST	The Grandview Stake.
GT	The Grandview Stake.  And, he got his doctor’s degree in psychology, and he was a professional psychologist for the Veterans’ Administration.  He was a practicing psychologist at the Veterans’ Hospital.  I haven’t heard from him since we lived in Kenwood Second Ward.
ST	Hmph.
GT	I’ve thought about him quite a bit and thought I ought to try and reach him, but I found out that he doesn’t live in Salt Lake City anymore.
ST	How did you find that out?
GT	I think I looked him up on Google one time.  [chuckles]  I haven’t tried to contact him. Anyway, we lived in that apartment house for a couple of years, and then we moved a block north on Third East, and the other side of the street—the east side of the street, to an apartment behind a little restaurant called Izzy’s Chicken Inn.  [chuckles]  And, the first apartment—we actually lived in two different apartments behind Izzy’s Chicken Inn.   The first one was a two-room apartment, one bedroom and a kitchenette and a bathroom.  We lived there just for a few months, and then we moved into the apartment behind that, which was three rooms, a living room, kitchen, and bedroom, and bathroom of course.  We lived there for several years.  It must have been close to three years that we lived in that place.  All that time I was going to Oquirrh Elementary, and Ron Franz and I were buddies then.  I have a copy of a newspaper article somewhere of me walking the rails around somebody’s lawn around the corner from the school.  That was quite an episode in my life too.  I had been selected by the principle to be the bell ringer—to be one of the bell ringers.  I would push to button to ring the bells to change classes.  We had seven classes in elementary school, at the Oquirrh Elementary, and I also rang like a cowbell to get the kids to come in in the morning, to morning class, and to come in from recess.  They had two recesses, morning and afternoon.  I rang the bells for them.  But, Mrs. Forrester had chosen me to be one of the bell ringers.  There was one for the front yard and one for the back yard.
ST	So, how did you know when to ring the bells?
GT	I had to watch the clock.  I’d get up and go and ring the bells when it was time to ring them.  And, what happened was, Mrs. Forrester had an assembly and told all the students in the school that they were not to walk the rails around people’s lawns.  That was one of the first things that happened in the school.  But, Ron and I, and our mutual girlfriend Valerie Hawkins were walking down Fourth South going home one day, and these two Salt Lake Telegram Newspaper Reporters intercepted us and talked us into walking the rails [chuckles] and took a picture and published it in the Salt Lake Telegraph.
ST	Oh, geeze!
GT	[chuckles]  And, we all got called into the principal’s office when Mrs. Forrester saw the newspaper.  [laughter]  [editor: and he’s never trusted the media since!]
ST	“But, the reporter made me do it”!
GT	I didn’t get expelled.  [laughter]  I was the one walking the rail, and I think—as I recall, Valerie and I were walking the rail, and Ron was helping us on the sidewalk, holding our hand or something.
ST	What was the point of the article?
GT	The article said how much fun the kids were having.
ST	Oh.  How much fun it is to get called into the principal’s office.  [laughter]
GT	I don’t think the reporters ever knew about that rule.  We didn’t tell them about it.   [laughter] . . . I don’t know.  Maybe I did tell them about it and just did it anyway.  I don’t remember.
ST	What grade would you have been in at the time.
GT	I was in the fifth grade when that happened.  I think.  It must have been right during the first week of school, because we were all rather carefully dressed.
ST	Oh.  Have you still got that picture?
GT	Yeah.  I’ve got it somewhere.  In fact, I had a copy made of it, and I don’t know what I did with it.  I went to the newspaper and found it, and got a decent copy made.
ST	The Salt Lake Telegraph?
GT	The Salt Lake Telegram.
ST	Telegram.  Does somebody still have their morgue?
GT	Uh.  I think the Tribune.  It was the Tribune and the Telegram were both co-newspapers then.  Tribune morning and Telegram in the evening.  The Telegram went out of business.  It was the Deseret News and the Telegram [in the afternoon] for a while, for a few years.
ST	Fifth grade?
GT	I might have been — yeah, I think I was in the fifth grade then, when that happened.  I might have been in the sixth grade.
ST	I’ll see if I can pop that up real quick here. . . .   Fifth grade—you would have been ten or eleven, probably?
GT	I would have been—let’s see, I was ten when I went into the—let’s see.  I think I was ten when I went into the sixth grade, then became eleven.
ST	So, I’m thinking probably ’41? . . . Is that about right?
GT	Yeah.  I believe—it would have had to have been ’41, when I was in the fifth grade.
ST	Did you mention the headline of the article?
GT	No.
ST	Do you remember it?
GT	No.  I don’t remember what it was.
ST	Well, it’s online.  I will search it.  They’ve got the full archives of it.
GT	Oh, really?  Huh.  Good luck.  [laughter]
ST	Yeah.
GT	I had to go to the newspaper—or, to the library—the Salt Lake Library is where I found it.  That was a long time ago.  I don’t remember what the occasion was when I decided to do that.
ST	So, how old were you when you moved from there?
GT	I was in the sixth grade when we moved from Salt Lake out to Chesterfield, and I started —I went to school at Plymouth Elementary in the sixth grade.  I can’t remember what time of the year it was, but I think I was in that school for most of the year—most of the school year when I was in the sixth grade.  As I recall, I was eleven.  I must have been—I can’t remember what time of the year it was when I started school out there, but I know school was already going.  I don’t know how long it has been going when I started school out at Plymouth.
ST	It would have been in the fall?  Had winter set in yet?
GT	I can’t remember if winter had set in.  I don’t think it had when I started school at Plymouth.  I’m afraid my memory is a little dim for those days.  But, I remember when we first moved out to Chesterfield, we moved in with the Godfreys.
ST	Who are the Godfreys?
GT	The Godfreys are the people that owned the property.  They had bought an acre of ground from the Giles family for—they had paid $100 for an acre of ground—is that right?  No.  I think they paid $50 for their acre, if I remember right.
ST	Oh man.
GT	And, they had built—started to build a house—it was quite a ways along—it was habitable—had doors and windows, but it was unfinished, and we moved in with them.  It had a bedroom, a living room, and a kitchen.  At the same time, Uncle Ken who lived up on Sixth Avenue—I don’t know if he owned the ground where the old barn was, but somehow he arranged it for my step-dad Dad Tarbet to tear down this old barn.  The old barn was about—oh, I think about 20’x20’, if that big.  I’d say it was about that size.  He arranged for Dad to tear the barn down and keep the lumber from it.  They used that to lay a floor and put a framework up for a tent in behind the Godfreys.  The Godfreys lived at—what was the address?  2495 South Chatham Street.  That’s—in other words, almost exactly 2500 South Chatham Street.  That was their acre of ground—that was their address for their acre of ground.  They sold the east half of their acre to the Tarbets—to Glen and Carol Tarbet—for $100 dollars.
ST	Oh wow.
GT	[chuckles]  So, they made 200% interest on that half acre.  But, that was fine.  It was well worth $100 to us.
ST	Oh, yeah.
GT	I don’t know how long it took us to pay the $100.  I know it wasn’t immediate.  I know it took years before they every got paid all their $100.
ST	What occasioned the move out to Chesterfield?
GT	Well, my mother had said for years—I guess she had somehow become aware of people moving out there and living in tents.  She had said for years that sometimes she might live in a tent out on Redwood Road.   And, she got the opportunity.
ST	Was it her that was the driving force in that?
GT	Oh, I’m sure it was a combination of the Godfreys getting out there, and I don’t know exactly how they get acquainted with the Godfreys.  I don’t know whose friends they were.  But, the Godfreys had three children at the time.  I can’t remember the oldest girl’s name—their boy Freddie and their girl Rosie, and it wasn’t long after they moved out there that they had their fourth little girl, Loretta.  The oldest girl’s name was Geraldine, and she was I think a couple of years older than me.  Freddie was just I think a year younger than me.  But, we were all living in that house, and they got it finished and sold it.  But, they didn’t sell it until after we had finished our place.  They bought a tent and put it up on the floor, but the tent was full of holes.  [chuckles]  So, it was not livable so they went ahead and used the lumber from the old barn and framed it up and put a roof on.  That was the Tarbet residence until I graduated from high school—and beyond that, actually.  That’s where I lived, I should say, until I graduated from high school, and then my mother lived there for several years after that.
ST	It was well into my memory.
GT	Yeah.  But, they put the tent up right behind the Godfreys’ house—oh, maybe ten feet behind the Godfreys’ house, if that far, and build the house on the floor there, and we moved into that house and lived in it there behind the Godfreys for maybe a year or so, and then they made arrangements for a farmer that lived a couple of blocks away—a black guy—who had a bit team of Clydesdale horses.  They made arrangements for him to bring his horses down and tow the house down to our property.  [chuckles]  They laid planks and got a bunch of pipes—well pipes—and rolled it, actually, on those planks and the pipes down onto our property.
ST	What was the new address, then?
GT	Uh, they got it just barely onto our property—I guess it was maybe ten feet behind our property line.  But, the address of our property was on Derby Street.  I think I have that address in here somewhere.  I had it wrong for a long time.  I gave you the wrong address.
ST	Oh, good.  I’m so glad.  Because I went to that address and it was just so—it just didn’t make sense to me, and I thought I must be going crazy.
GT	[under his breath]  Well, let’s see.  What would I have that under? . . . I’m trying to find it.  [corresponding lot on Derby Street] . . . Sorry to delay things here.
ST	No worries.  . . .  .
GT	Oh, nuts . . .
ST	As a matter of fact, I did a Google Earth drive by of it before I actually went over there, and it just didn’t seem right at all.
GT	Well, the . . . Our lot —I don’t know if it’s still vacant, but it was a year or so ago.  It was completely vacant.  The house had burned down, and you know they had deeded a piece of it to Martha’s mother—I can’t find that.  But, it’s Derby Street, and I think it’s 2506 Derby Street, or something like that. [2486 Derby is the vacant lot].  But, it was built up all around it, but it was vacant.  It just occurred to me that I might have filed that under Derby Street. . . .  Nope.  It’s kind of a mixed up situation, because that piece of it is different in the plot from the rest of the plot (as shown on Google maps).  The guy that bought the property around there.  I talked to him.  He’s an old school mate of mine from Plymouth High School [Plymouth Junior high or Granite High School].  But—I can’t think of his name.  But, he bought the property around it, and for some reason he never did get the Tarbet property.  I can’t think of his name.
ST	Does this look familiar?  [editor:  looking at Google maps, I imagine]  Drag that around so you can see next door.
GT	Now, that’s next door.
ST	I think that new house is probably about 2500.
GT	Well, that might be on the Tarbet property.  In fact, it looks like it is.
ST	So, Martha’s mom lived just west of your house, then.
GT	No, just east of it.  In fact, that house looks like it’s right where Martha’s mom’s house was.
ST	And so, yours would have been back behind that—to the west of it.
GT	Right.  When did you take that picture?
ST	Oh, this is off Google Map’s street view.
GT	Oh.  Well, it looks pretty recent.
ST	Yeah, that’s probably fairly recent.
GT	Wait a minute.  Let me look at that again.
ST	Hang on.  Let me get just a little bit further down the street here.
GT	Is that Derby Street?
ST	That’s Derby Street.  1410 West. . . .   Here.  Let me turn it sideways so you can see a little better.
GT	That’s interesting.
ST	[mumbles to his Droid]  Okay.  Now.  Let’s go back to the browser.
GT	By the way, you know when they list all the unclaimed property in the newspaper?
ST	Hmm-mmm.
GT	And Grandma Haskell’s name was in there.
ST	Oh, is that right?
GT	I tracked that down, and it was for a 75₵ tax. [chuckles]
ST	Oh, geeze. . . . Okay.  C’mon.  . . . . 75₵, huh?  It’s hilarious that they’d even bother to publish that.
GT	Yeah.  That’s amazing that it would even be in the paper. . . .
ST	Oh.  That’s not nearly as satisfactory on the phone as it is on the computer screen.
GT	Well, that looks like that house is right where Martha’s mother’s house is, and there’s another building behind that that could be down on Godfreys’ old property.  The Godfreys moved to American Fork, and we lived in the Godfrey house for a few months before it finally sold—after they moved, I mean.  We lived in their house until they finally got it sold.
ST	Let me take a quick pause here for just a second.
GT	That’s a good idea.  I’ve got to go to the bathroom. . . .  How long have we been going?
ST	I don’t know.  [answer: 1:27:08.6]  [end]
	[begin gft20110618-02]
ST	. . . about [0:00:02.5] years since the house burned down?
GT	Yeah.
ST	Do you know what happened to it?  I mean, why there was a fire?
GT	No.
ST	No.  No idea.
GT	We heard rumors that there were tramps living in there—homeless people—[0:00:24.4] . . .
ST	Well . . .
GT	I’d like to take a drive through there and see what’s going on.  It’s been five or six years since the last time I did.
ST	I’d like to ride with you when you do that.  What if you guys came up that way and we all went riding together, maybe grab some dinner afterwards.
GT	Up to your place,  you mean?
ST	Yeah.
GT	Go to your place.
ST	And go out to Chesterfield.
GT	Oh, I’ll think about that.
ST	Okay.
GT	[00:01:05.4]
ST	Well, let’s be in touch between now and then [end]